Your training: an informal survey

topic posted Mon, April 7, 2008 - 12:29 PM by  Jesse
Howdy folks,
I hate admitting I'm a beginner but for the purpose of starting this discussion I will journey into the realm of full disclosure: I've only been studying website design for less than 5 years now, pretty much completely self-taught with assistance from various books, websites, and Pixel ;)

I took some art electives in college but never an actual design class. I first learned to use Illustrator on the job, doing typesetting for a greeting card company starting about 9 years ago I think. That didn't involve much graphic design either so really I'm self-taught with my graphics programs since I got CS and MX about... 5 years ago.

When I was a kid I used to write programs in BASIC for my Commodore 64 (anybody remember those??). But I never got into MS-DOS or command-line *nix programming.

So it's been a major crash course for me, picking up css, php, mysql, and javascript on the fly, not to mention figuring out layers, the pen tool, vector masks and etc. The crash course has involved many, many late nights debugging and testing the same page or script over and over while cursing. It's getting better...

Anyways, I'm just wondering, how long have YOU been building web pages? Did you get a degree in computer science, take any programming courses in college, or major in graphic design?? Or have you, like me, been learning on the job? An informal survey, all are invited to respond!!!

--jj
posted by:
Jesse
  • Re: Your training: an informal survey

    Mon, April 7, 2008 - 12:46 PM
    Well im self taught. I actually used to want to write/illustrate comics. Then when i got to high school i decided on photography. During this time though i was also dabbling in graphic design with photoshop 4 (ahhh memories) and teaching myself HTML. I wen to sate university for a year and then decided it wasnt for me. After that i got a job at kinkos and thats where i had real knowledge growth and really got into design oddly enough. I worked in Document Creation so I learned PageMaker and Freehand and got turned on to prepress. After that i worked as a designer at a politcal strategy firm and then at a flexo shop doing prepress. All the while I was freelancing and all the while doin on and off spurts of web design stuff jsut because the work was there when the print work wasnt.

    Then i got my current job as a designer at a marketing firm and got pushed even more into web because it was something we wanted to offer (and I wanted to get more up to date on). You guys have seen me progress through much of this last phase as ive been posting here in this tribe since its beginning.

    And thats my story haha.
    • Re: Your training: an informal survey

      Mon, April 7, 2008 - 2:38 PM
      dude, i used to work sales at a flexo shop!!! that's awesome, most people have never heard of flexography. (firefox doesn't even recognize the word, it's suggesting I should use "lexicography")
      • Re: Your training: an informal survey

        Mon, April 7, 2008 - 3:31 PM
        "dude, i used to work sales at a flexo shop!!! that's awesome, most people have never heard of flexography."

        yeah most people dont know what the hell im talking about. To this day ill often rip open a chip bag to see if my guesses were correct on the color breakdown i speced from looking at it. haha.
  • Re: Your training: an informal survey

    Mon, April 7, 2008 - 1:29 PM

    I'm another self-starter. Started programming basic on a Sinclair ZX81 when I was a wee 12 years, graduated to ZX80 assembler, then got an Atari so I could make graphics and learned 6502 assembler. While in high school, I built a synthesizer based on the the Atari 800xl with some custom sampler hardware. It was freaky. After that, I got an Amiga and started taking freelance videography projects (that's what they called it back then), did that while in school for Mass Comm, but I went to work for CompUSA, bought a Mac and learned Deneba Canvas, Photoshop, Macromedia Director, which led to my getting consulting leads and leaving CompUSA. I went back to school for Industrial Design and Film, but moved west to SF and kept doing web, Director stuff and consulting on web and tech support projects thru 2003, and have been focused more on more technical web systems since.

    I don't get the chunks of time to explore design like I used to, and I kind of like not arguing over teal vs fucshia, triangle vs. trapezoid issues with clients, or not being a "hip" designer. I've always been more practical, probably because I know more about the long-term maintence/standards.

    It's funny thinking that the web is this old, isn't it? Gosh, I got my first ISP account in 94-95, been an ebay member for 10 years, bought my first domains in late 90's! eek!
    • Re: Your training: an informal survey

      Mon, April 7, 2008 - 3:28 PM
      ""I don't get the chunks of time to explore design like I used to, and I kind of like not arguing over teal vs fucshia, triangle vs. trapezoid issues with clients, or not being a "hip" designer. I've always been more practical, probably because I know more about the long-term maintence/standards."

      That is total foreshadowing of where I see myself headed. Im still at the point where i like design, but really I like "making it work" more. I like doing manual traps and curve manipulation to press targets, I like firguring out how to break a comp down into descrete xhtml and the often obscure challenges browser compliance can through at you.

      Maybe im a closet masochist hahaha.
  • Re: Your training: an informal survey

    Mon, April 7, 2008 - 10:54 PM
    1995 - Couldn't tell you how a computer worked except maybe where the on button was.
    1996 - Bought my first computer, bought my first HTML book. Temping as an admin asssistant then. Playing around with web design and HTML, not seriously.
    1997 - Ask a friend to teach my how to build my first PC from parts. Built around 6 PC that year for friends to see if I could do. Started getting serious with web design after I saw the glassdog site. Started all the required reading. Mostly print and graphic design books. Did around 4 sites for money. I still have them on disk somewhere. They sucked!!
    1998 - The print books helped. Designed my first really good site. Made friends with the IT person at my admin temp job and finagled my way into doing 4 of their intranet sites (it's always good to have a great boss who's looking to see you grow).
    1999 - Temp job closed. Used my personal site which was the most popular swing dancing sites (not a huge accomplishment since I only had 4 competitors but still proud of it) and my intranet sites to get a job at one of Colorado big design firms. Realized I was way out of my league, but made do. Left short after because some startup offered me double my salary to go design for them.
    2000 - While designing for the startup, I convinced them to pay for a ColdFusion course. Started learning Coldfusion.
    2001 - Startup crashed. I ended up at another design firm. Taught myself ASP and PHP to where I could create small apps that need to read and write from a database. ASP I ended up getting really good at. My PHP is passable.
    2002-2004 - stayed at that design firm for a while doing mostly front-end coding (HTML/CSS) and grunt work photoshop stuff for the lead designer. Did a lot of freelance design work. Did lots of ASP and PHP.
    2005-present - left design firm when management changed. went to my current job which was all ASP, javascript and C# for one web application. Started learning C# to convert the ASP. That's what I do now as a dayjob which is C#.

    I don't freelance design work anymore because it's too time consuming. I have about half a dozen graphic designers that I code for and educate on web stuff. Mostly, I work on my own sites and my wifes. I've had two really popular niche sites - the swing dancing one and the short track speed skating one which taught me more about web sites then working at any company. I learned alot because I could take action and make decisions on those sites and see the results they gave me. I used my short track site to learn SEO.

    Over the last 3 years, I've been experimenting with my wife's business sites. I got her to #1 on google and high on the other big 5 under a search for "china adoption videos" pretty easily, but start realizing that traffic doesn't equal sales. She works part time and currently makes a 3rd of our income, but her sales and referral numbers aren't great considering she's almost at 100 clients and all of them are ecstatically happy.

    So I've been reading sales books and listening to sales tapes for the last 3 months and am starting on the redesign of her site. Either the ideas that I implement work or they don't and I get provable numbers.


  • Re: Your training: an informal survey

    Wed, April 9, 2008 - 11:05 AM
    hopefully it doesn't surprise you how many people here are self-starters... that is the kind of business this is... and the kind of forum i suppose...

    I had a commodore 64 that i tinkered with but mostly played two dimensional games on, then an old MS_DOS kind of thing that i also tinkered with but that was as far as that went. they could never do anything interesting enough to get me interested. Primarily I am a painter/artist and that was and is always my first love. So i left college after two years (wasn't my bag), gave away my old computer and went skiing for a few years. In that time a friend got me to register a website for my artwork and I taught myself the basics of Frontpage (and i mean basics...) and i was coming at web design from my nomadic artist lifestyle so it was pretty poorly done...

    Maybe six years ago I bought a new Ibook cause computers had finally gotten to where I found them interesting again - as somethimg that could be more responsive to my creative whims. So i obtained Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and Aftereffects and spent a winter in VT learning them all - esp PS and AfterEffects. I used the WYSIWYG aspect of DW mostly. THen, ever so slowly, I started to hire myself out, friends mostly, to do design stuff and learning all the way, sometimes the hard way, about what to do and what not to do, printwise, webwise, etc. So i made websites for people that "worked" for all intents and purposes but I had yet to really consider myself a web designer or a graphic designer. Like I said, i am a painter and that has been the main intention.

    Then I went away to Costa Rica, learned spanish and came back understanding HTML. Weird. So suddenly it all opened up for me and I could read and write code. It was a pretty cool realization but sobering too cause i could look into the underbelly of all the websites I'd made and see how atrocious their code was. overnight I became a code snob. Since that time it's been a lot of googling, sitting in bookstores, and, like you say, late nights cursing the computer for not doing what i want- then I find the misplaced semi-colon or something.

    Since then, I've also taught myself InDesign, Illustrator and can now write HTML and CSS from scratch without any kind of graphic interface and can also hack PHP in a beginner level and mess around with limited Javascript but I have enough of a limited understanding of it to know how to make people's plugins function like i want them to, etc. It's a nice feeling really.

    And along the way, I've learned to pay attention to design and how things work. In my opinion, the two are closely related- a site I might really like works well because of a cohesive design (the teal! the teal!) as well as cleanly functioning code so i find myself looking at the code to see what they did and also the design to see how they used it. All of this has informed my painting quite a bit as well. It is, after all, always just the presentation of Information and we look to present that information in relevant and cohesive manner.

    And a final note- at this point I work off of all word of mouth referrals and returning clients, and get by fairly well off my design skills and my artwork. yay for being self-employed.
    • Re: Your training: an informal survey

      Wed, April 9, 2008 - 11:57 AM
      I got my first (MS-Dos 3.3) computer back around 1990 and poked around on it for a while and explored some of the alt.goth & alt.music groups that were on line prior to web browsers becoming popular. I was mainly using it for Pascal and C programming and other work-related things, plus the odd Excel file for finances and such.

      I didn't really get into web pages until my ex-wife picked up a copy of Hot Metal Pro around 1995 when she was doing some website maintenance gigs and I got to see how all that stuff worked. I didn't go anywhere with it at the time.

      Around 2001 after we split up, I started a concert promotion company and went through all of the HTML/Javascript Web Monkey tutorials when I designed my company's website. I was totally jazzed when my rollover buttons actually worked!!! After a couple of years I decided that I didn't like doing promotions, but I really enjoyed designing and printing the flyers and tickets, so I started taking Digital Media classes at the local JC. About a semester in, I started taking their basic HTML classes, which were all hand-coding classes that stressed accessibility and W3C validation. After those I dug into Dreamweaver and Flash classes, then, after moving to San Jose, continued with some ActionScripting and PHP/MySQL classes. Those worked out quite well and just yesterday set up my first "professional" database for a client.

      Generally speaking, I think learning it for yourself makes you really appreciate the nuts and bolts that make web pages work. The flip side is that you can end up just learning what you need to know to get your pages done. For example, I never even heard about robot files until a few months ago mainly because I didn't "need" them. My latest thing has been exploring CSS positioning and XHTML validation for the pages I work on.

      Interesting thread! I hadn't thought about a lot of this stuff for years!

      SMSapphire
      • Re: Your training: an informal survey

        Wed, April 9, 2008 - 4:50 PM
        yeah it's totally encouraging to me that so many people are self-taught, on-the-job learners. That means there is hope!!! and it's a testimony to the diversity of this tribe that there are both self-taught web designers and web designers who took classes or even got a degree in it

        corin i think your temp job lasted longer than I've ever worked at a permanent job

        pixel i do the same thing, my wife laughs at me when she sees me studying packaging and she says, "you're not reading that are you?" and of course she's right I'm not reading the text, I'm examining the design it to see how it was printed. bags, boxes, labels, who knew they could be so interesting?
        • Re: Your training: an informal survey

          Wed, April 9, 2008 - 9:22 PM
          Self taught - started with vi...went on to HTML and JavaScript (old skool) then on to Flash Action Script, then onto Cold Fusion, SQL then onto Photoshop, then onto PHP and MySQL.

          Now, more and more I do back end integration and information architecture....I still design and code sites for fun.

          Books and online resources for the majority of my career...this was not an area offered when I was in college so I am pretty sure anyone over 35 doing this for a living is self taught =)


Recent topics in "Web Design"

Topic Author Replies Last Post
RoR-- is this a really bad idea? Jesse 2 Yesterday, 9:55 PM
e-commerce, ssl gertie 1 Yesterday, 9:50 PM
rss virgin david 3 Yesterday, 9:41 AM
Switching to a server tech vs. existing search engine rankings?? SMSapphire 1 July 21, 2008